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backpacker (66)

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Post Posted February 16, 2012

A recent debate has started to emerge out at my club so I thought I might shoot it by you guys here to see how most play doubles.

At my club, when playing doubles, each server serves to a designated opponent the entire match on one side of the court. Your partner serves to the other opponent the entire match.

Question: if you accidentally serve to the wrong side, is it considered a "replay", fault, or is it still in play? Some people at my club say it's replay. My thinking is it should still be in play as it's up to "The Team" to work together to defend against any type of serve. Is there an official rule on this?

This is kind of important as the rule impacts "wrap around serves" where the ball ricochets off the side, then the back wall at an angle causing it to fly into the other side of the court where your partner isn't necessarily expecting to make a return. In fact, if I try to return a wrap-around serve (instead of cutting it off) and my partner isn't paying attention, I couldn't potentially hit him.
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Control Freak (7284)

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Post Posted February 16, 2012

In recreational doubles it is customary in many places to serve only to the team opponent on your side of the court. This is done for the safety of players and sometimes to prevent a weaker team player from being excessively picked on.

You can agree to whatever you like in your club and your court, but under the rules of racquetball you can serve wherever you like, there are no restrictions.




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Jordan (927)

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Post Posted February 17, 2012

This question was asked by me and other players two weeks ago during a local doubles tournament. Our Tournament Director called it a “Fault Serve”. During my matches, we also allowed the designated receiver the option to play all “Wrap-Around-Serves” that accidentally went to the other side of the court, or take a “Fault Serve”.

If I was the Tournament Director, I might have reduced the call to a Replay Hinder for lower skilled players on the first infraction, then call a “Fault Serve” if it occurred a second time in the same service.

Players who are not used to keeping their serve to one side of the court have both physical and mental problems controlling their serves, especially during events like challenges, leagues and tournaments.

Note: As mentioned earlier, the reasons are for safety, and to prevent picking on a weaker player. Although I assume the serving team could switch sides to serve to the other side- but so could the receiving team :)
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Denny E (1554)

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Post Posted February 17, 2012

Why in the world would you change the official rules of racquetball in a tournament? Unless you're playing in a specific division like multi-bounce, I wouldn't support changing the rules in tournament play. Sooner rather than later, people should learn and play according to, the offical rules. In recreational, club play, no worries -- use whatever local rules you want to use. But in a sanctioned tournament, use the official rules. Just my opinion.......
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Jordan (927)

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Post Posted February 17, 2012

FACT: (and an Official USAR Rule) Tournament directors are allowed to add, delete or modify almost any "Official Rule", during sanctioned or non-sanctioned events. Just because something is, or isn't in the “Official Rulebook”, doesn't automatically result in being the best rules to use. Player safety comes first. Even the official Multi-Bounce Rule has a terrible safety flaw!

The doubles tournament I participated in recently was not a sanctioned event.
This was a typical non-sanction friendly doubles event with mostly recreational players. However, a few of the players happen to be non-typical recreational players who also are nationally ranked sanctioned tournament players. One of my opponents was once involved in the IRT (pro tour). The rule change didn't bother me or the other participants.
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Diehard 70 (74)

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Post Posted February 17, 2012

At our club we play for fun and exersise. In doubles play the serving team serves from the left side to the recieving aponent on the left side of the court, if they win the rally, then the servers partner rotates from the right side to the left side of the court, and the server rotates to the right side and serves from the right side to the recieving teams right side.

This way the servers partner dosen't go home with a lot of round black and blue circles on his or her body.

The recieving partners can not rotate untill after they have had their turn to serve and lose the serve. When they become the recievers they can keep the side they had before or rotate and hold that position untill the next round.

However when recieving if the other team keeps their best player on the same side and dosen't rotate him, especially if he is a lefty. I remind them this is for fun, and if they don't rotate, I Don't have to serve to the left side. This works for us.

About replays. Example: If serving a jam serve from the left side to the left side. Sometimes it may go past the left side reciever and go to the center back wall. That's no replay both recievers should be awake and not sleeping.
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Denny E (1554)

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Post Posted February 18, 2012

Can you direct me to where in the rules it says that almost any official rule can be deleted at the tournament director's wish in a sanctioned tournament?

Thanks.
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lionel_101 (2344)

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Post Posted February 18, 2012

Backpacker,

There is no wrong side to serve in doubles. You can serve to either side, down the middle, and any other kind of legal serve you like. Your partner might not like you drive serving to his side and not giving him a chance to get out of the way. It can lead to a penalty hinder or worse your partner getting hit.

I like playing avoidables, but in most of our pickup games we don't. In our doubles, we hit to the player on the same side and once in a while a bad serves happens to go to the wrong person, but we play it, there is no do overs.

If they serve to my side which is his partner's side, I give them 1 warning not to do it again. If they do, I will light up his partner if he is in my lanes and then let them talk about not doing it again.

Be smart and safe and keep your serves to your side or to the middle of the court.

If or when my partner does it to me, I will send serval easy serves directly behind him and tell the receiver to swing away. This helps for them to understand why not to serve to the wrong side.

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Control Freak (7284)

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Post Posted February 18, 2012

Denny E
Can you direct me to where in the rules it says that almost any official rule can be deleted at the tournament director's wish in a sanctioned tournament?

Competition Policies and Procedures
B.4 Rules Briefing Before all tournaments, all officials and players shall be briefed on rules as well as local court hinders, regulations, and modifications the tournament director wishes to impose. The briefing should be reduced to writing. The current USAR rules will apply and be made available. Any modifications the tournament director wishes to impose must be stated on the entry form and be available to all players at registration.





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Jordan (927)

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Post Posted February 18, 2012

Thanks Control Freak for posting the rule. Before telling the location of this very hidden rule, I was curious how upset Denny would get, thinking I made up that this entire official rule modification thing :)

Denny wrote:

Why in the world would you change the official rules of racquetball in a tournament? Unless you're playing in a specific division like multi-bounce,

I wouldn't support changing the rules in tournament play. Sooner rather than later, people should learn and play according to, the offical rules.

In recreational, club play, no worries -- use whatever local rules you want to use. But in a sanctioned tournament, use the official rules. Just my opinion.......

Denny, according to your opinion above, does this mean you should have known the official rule about rules modification? Relax, just giving you a hard time for not believing my prior posts.
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Denny E (1554)

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Post Posted February 18, 2012

I asked you for a reference, Jordan - I wasn't impugning your truth telling. Unlike you, I don't profess to be the expert on the rules, and rule B.4 doesn't imply what you said, regardless. The inference is not that a TD can "add, delete or modify almost any official rule"; the implication is that there are oftentimes local rules and that any changes are on the entry form. Were those changes on the entry form, Jordan, in keeping with the official rules of the USAR?

My opinion was about a sanctioned tournament .. .. and that's what it was, Jordan .. an opinion.
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jasonwright77 (2209)

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Post Posted February 18, 2012

This happens all the time in our state's lower level mixed doubles. It's on all the North Carolina entry forms. Everyone agrees to the rule change because it makes for more fair (and safe) play.

Example:
http://www.ncracquetball.com/Portals/7/Wolfpack%2012%20Web%20Entry.pdf

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Denny E (1554)

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Post Posted February 19, 2012

Thanks for the link, Jason.....got it now.
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Jordan (927)

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Post Posted February 19, 2012

Denny,

As long as I added it to the entry form, I could host a sanctioned event with my own set of new rules. I could create a new age group, or even allow the ball to bounce three times on the floor, instead of once. I am not making this up and those rules have been used during sanctioned play.

I began teaching racquetball while working at a club in 1977. I was a member of the Illinois State Racquetball Association Governing Board (1986-1996) and learned a lot about the rules, including Rule B.4. I remember posting reminder notices of rule changes and modifications on the court doors (for players) and upstairs on the spectator gallery (referee) during many sanctioned events.

Unlike the typical racquetball player, my professional involvement with adult and youth racquetball programs required a legal responsibility to understand all the racquetball rules, while providing a safe playing experience. If I can help by explaining the correct rules, would it make a difference who I am, my level of expertise or even my playing skills? Does it really matter if I am an “expert” or not? It's not who the messenger is, it's the message that matters.

BTW... Thanks Jason. Example rules modification on doubles entry form: Special rules: The NCRA Mixed Doubles Gentleman's Rule is in effect for the B/C mixed doubles. The NC racquetball website has the rule posted:

IN MIXED DOUBLES DIVISIONS OF LEVEL B AND BELOW, DURING THE SERVE, THE MALE PLAYER OF EACH TEAM MUST SERVE TO THE LEFT SIDE OF THE COURT ONLY. IN THE JUDGMENT OF THE REFEREE, THE SERVE MUST CLEARLY BE ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THE COURT AND BE RETURNABLE FROM THAT SIDE, WITH ANY VIOLATIONS BEING A FAULT SERVE.

ALL SANCTIONED EVENTS IN NC MUST ADHERE TO THIS RULE AND INCLUDE IT ON THEIR ENTRY FORMS. IT MAY BE REFERRED TO ON ENTRY FORMS AS THE NCRA MIXED DOUBLES GENTLEMAN'S RULE. THE FORM SHOULD READ "THE NCRA MIXED DOUBLES GENTLEMAN'S RULE IS IN EFFECT AT THIS EVENT."


Source: http://ncracquetball.com/Events/MixedBCDoublesRule.aspx / http://www.ncracquetball.com/Portals/7/Wolfpack%2012%20Web%20Entry.pdf
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Control Freak (7284)

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Post Posted February 19, 2012

lionel_101
Be smart and safe and keep your serves to your side or to the middle of the court.

If or when my partner does it to me, I will send serval easy serves directly behind him and tell the receiver to swing away. This helps for them to understand why not to serve to the wrong side.


My doubles partner learns it is best not to serve to my side.



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BackhandSplat (2026)

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Post Posted February 19, 2012

Jordan


IN MIXED DOUBLES DIVISIONS OF LEVEL B AND BELOW, DURING THE SERVE, THE MALE PLAYER OF EACH TEAM MUST SERVE TO THE LEFT SIDE OF THE COURT ONLY. IN THE JUDGMENT OF THE REFEREE, THE SERVE MUST CLEARLY BE ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THE COURT AND BE RETURNABLE FROM THAT SIDE, WITH ANY VIOLATIONS BEING A FAULT SERVE.

ALL SANCTIONED EVENTS IN NC MUST ADHERE TO THIS RULE AND INCLUDE IT ON THEIR ENTRY FORMS. IT MAY BE REFERRED TO ON ENTRY FORMS AS THE NCRA MIXED DOUBLES GENTLEMAN'S RULE. THE FORM SHOULD READ "THE NCRA MIXED DOUBLES GENTLEMAN'S RULE IS IN EFFECT AT THIS EVENT."


Source: http://ncracquetball.com/Events/MixedBCDoublesRule.aspx / http://www.ncracquetball.com/Portals/7/Wolfpack%2012%20Web%20Entry.pdf


That's a weird way to phrase the rule, what if you are playing with a left-handed woman?
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Denny E (1554)

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Post Posted February 19, 2012

Jordan,
I'm going to stop this silly back and forth with you before you start posting diagrams indicating how ignorant and uninformed my point of view is.

Denny
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Jordan (927)

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Post Posted February 20, 2012

Thanks.

Lets all agree that a tournament director may use *any ruling they wish.

Non-sanctioned events are not govern by Official Rules, so there is no requirement to notify participants of rule modifications on entry forms.

*Sanctioned events must follow the Official Rules, include all rule modifications on the entry form and may not alter certain official rules, procedures or policies (for safety and liability concerns).
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Control Freak (7284)

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Post Posted February 20, 2012

Jordan
As long as I added it to the entry form, I could host a sanctioned event with my own set of new rules. . . .

Lets all agree that a tournament director may use *any ruling they wish.

*Sanctioned events must follow the Official Rules, include all rule modifications on the entry form and may not alter certain official rules, procedures or policies (for safety and liability concerns).

There you go, pulling rules out of your butt again, Jordan.

First you say a sanctioned TD can make ANY rule change, then you say "certain official rules" can never be changed (concerning "safety and liability") as you choose to decide.

Cite where in the rules it says that, cut and paste it here and now or shut the hell up.

The USRA reserves the right to decide what rule changes are acceptable in the tournaments it chooses to sanction, not you.

I'm guessing that only-caucasian tournaments and requiring all players to wear dead fetus necklaces won't be approved.




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Jordan (927)

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Post Posted February 21, 2012

Control Freak wrote:

First you say a sanctioned TD can make ANY rule change, then you say "certain official rules" can never be changed (concerning "safety and liability") as you choose to decide.

Jordan's Response:

Your eyes must be getting old. I never said “ANY”. Here is exactly what I said.

Post #2: “... Tournament directors are allowed to add, delete or modify almost any "Official Rule" ...”

Post #4 “... may not alter certain official rules, procedures or policies... “
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