Interesting situation happened last night. Player A is hitting a kill shot. Player B was running up to cover the shot and is about 7 ft from the front wall. The ball skips but comes back at Player B really fast and he has already started his swing. He hits the ball. It was a bang-bang type of play. When Player B hits the ball ball (after the skip) it breaks. What's the call? Replay because the ball broke?

At what point does the rally not get replayed due to the broken ball? When the next serve happens?

Here is rule 3.13.(f) which governs broken balls.

Broken Ball. If there is any suspicion that a ball has broken during a
rally, play shall continue until the end of the rally. The referee or any
player may request the ball be examined. If the referee decides the ball is
broken, the ball will be replaced and the rally replayed. The server resumes
play at first serve. The proper way to check for a broken ball is to squeeze
it by hand. However, if the referee can be certain that the ball was broken
during, and not after, the previous rally, then he can call for that rally to
be replayed. Checking the ball by any hard striking of it with a racquet will
not be considered a valid check and shall work to the disadvantage of the
player or team that struck the ball after the rally.

The rally ended when the ball skipped. Side out.

When the ball broke it was not in play.

The rally ended when the ball skipped. Side out.

When the ball broke it was not in play.

I would have to disagree with this call... How can you tell that the ball did not break when Player A hit it and that is what caused the skip? Even if I blatantly hit a skip and lose the rally, if I ask to check the ball and it is found to have broke, the previous rally is a replayed.

Yea, if it is discovered that the ball is broken before the next rally starts, you replay the previous rally. The only exception to this is that if someone breaks the ball by hitting it between rallies, then the call to replay works against that person.

So in your case, it's still a replay even though the ball clearly skipped.

Control Freak

The rally ended when the ball skipped. Side out.

When the ball broke it was not in play.

I agree with The Control Freak. If the ref did not suspect a broken ball during the rally, only after the rally had ended (after the skip) then he/she can't call for a replay.

Only if the ref suspects that the ball broke during the rally (sound of the ball or loss of velocity), do they have reason to replay the point.

kyles

Control Freak

The rally ended when the ball skipped. Side out.When the ball broke it was not in play.

I would have to disagree with this call... How can you tell that the ball did not break when Player A hit it and that is what caused the skip? Even if I blatantly hit a skip and lose the rally, if I ask to check the ball and it is found to have broke, the previous rally is a replayed.

BackhandSplat

Yea, if it is discovered that the ball is broken before the next rally starts, you replay the previous rally. The only exception to this is that if someone breaks the ball by hitting it between rallies, then the call to replay works against that person.

So in your case, it's still a replay even though the ball clearly skipped.

A rally ends when the ball hits the floor twice -- that happened when the hitter skipped the ball, that's undisputable.

The ball did not break during the rally, that's not in dispute. The conditions given were that there was no question when the ball broke.

You can argue that it can be difficult to tell when a ball breaks all you want, and I'm not disagreeing, but that's not the situation given here.

The rules provides that it is possible to tell whether a ball breaks because in the first sentence of the Broken Ball rules it says, "If there is any suspicion that a ball has broken during the rally. . . ."

In this scenario, there was NO suspicion of a broken ball during the rally.

The only way your opinions can be right is by changing both the conditions of the situation and the rules.

You boys must be a hoot to play with.

You're right CF, if you assume you know the exact moment the ball broke. Since he did say that in the original post, I will agree with you.

In reality I'd say you're never really sure when it was broken, so you should replay the last rally unless one team obviously broke it between rallies by hitting it.

I was also wondering why the OP posted this. If there is no question as to when the ball broke, the rules he quoted seem pretty clear.

I was interested to re-read the rule and see the reasonable level of judgement explicitly asked of the ref: "However, if the referee can be certain that the ball was broken during, and not after, the previous rally, then he can call for that rally to be replayed"

Matt

There are a few rules regarding the ball being broken. The most important factor is determining when the ball was broke, before or after the rally. The ONLY way to determine if the ball is broken is to squeeze it with your hand. “Checking” by hitting the ball will always favor the opposing team, if indeed the ball is broken.

If the referee thought the player was attempting a possible return and NOT attempting to “check” to see if the ball was broken, the referee is allowed t make a decision to when the ball broke.

Sometimes a ball will play like it is not broken, but bounce a bit slower than normal. This can easily account for a player hitting the ball on the second bounce, which meant the ball must have been broken during the rally and before that last hit after the second bounce.

The referee can always make a decision “when” the ball was broken. Before or after the rally. It may be impossible to prove, so it's strictly a judgment call. The rules ONLY penalize a player when they “check” to see if the ball was broken by hitting the ball.

The rule is clear that the ONLY way to “check” if the ball is broken is to use your hand. The rules never mention anything about a player “playing the ball” and hitting the ball on a second bounce by “accident” (couldn't hold-up swing). If this occurs by accident just after the ball bounced twice, and the referee believes there was no attempt to “check” or “break” the ball, the referee can then make a decision to “when” the ball likely broke. Before the rally was over, or after the second bounce when the player hit the ball.

---

USAR Official Rules

Rule 3.8 DEAD-BALL SERVES
Dead-ball serves do not cancel any previous fault serve. The following are dead-ball serves:

(b) Broken Ball. If the ball is determined to have broken on the serve, a new ball shall be substituted and the serve shall be replayed, not canceling any
prior fault serve.

Rule 3.13 RALLIES
All of the play that occurs after the successful return of serve is called the
rally. Play shall be conducted according to the following rules:

(f) Broken Ball. If there is any suspicion that a ball has broken during a
rally, play shall continue until the end of the rally. The referee or any
player may request the ball be examined. If the referee decides the ball is
broken, the ball will be replaced and the rally replayed. The server resumes
play at first serve. The proper way to check for a broken ball is to squeeze
it by hand. However, if the referee can be certain that the ball was broken
during, and not after, the previous rally, then he can call for that rally to
be replayed. Checking the ball by any hard striking of it with a racquet will
not be considered a valid check and shall work to the disadvantage of the
player or team that struck the ball after the rally.

Rule 3.17 TECHNICAL FOULS AND WARNINGS
(a) Technical Fouls. The referee is empowered to deduct one point from a
player's or team's score when, in the referee's sole judgment; the player is
being overtly and deliberately abusive. A prior warning is not required, but
see Rule 3.17(b). If the player or team against whom the technical foul was
assessed does not resume play immediately, the referee is empowered to forfeit
the match in favor of the opponent. Some examples of actions that can result
in technical fouls are:

4. Excessive or hard striking of the ball between rallies.

Source: USAR Online Rules - http://www.usra.org/Portals/18/pdf/New2011Rulebook.pdf

mdhills

I was also wondering why the OP posted this. If there is no question as to when the ball broke, the rules he quoted seem pretty clear.

I was interested to re-read the rule and see the reasonable level of judgement explicitly asked of the ref: "However, if the referee can be certain that the ball was broken during, and not after, the previous rally, then he can call for that rally to be replayed"

Matt

Yeah it's clearer now what the right call is. Sometimes you just have to think out loud for things to make sense...

Jordan

There are a few rules regarding the ball being broken. The most important factor is determining when the ball was broke, before or after the rally. The ONLY way to determine if the ball is broken is to squeeze it with your hand. “Checking” by hitting the ball will always favor the opposing team, if indeed the ball is broken.

If the referee thought the player was attempting a possible return and NOT attempting to “check” to see if the ball was broken, the referee is allowed t make a decision to when the ball broke.

Sometimes a ball will play like it is not broken, but bounce a bit slower than normal. This can easily account for a player hitting the ball on the second bounce, which meant the ball must have been broken during the rally and before that last hit after the second bounce.

The referee can always make a decision “when” the ball was broken. Before or after the rally. It may be impossible to prove, so it's strictly a judgment call. The rules ONLY penalize a player when they “check” to see if the ball was broken by hitting the ball.

The rule is clear that the ONLY way to “check” if the ball is broken is to use your hand. The rules never mention anything about a player “playing the ball” and hitting the ball on a second bounce by “accident” (couldn't hold-up swing). If this occurs by accident just after the ball bounced twice, and the referee believes there was no attempt to “check” or “break” the ball, the referee can then make a decision to “when” the ball likely broke. Before the rally was over, or after the second bounce when the player hit the ball.

---

USAR Official Rules

Rule 3.8 DEAD-BALL SERVES
Dead-ball serves do not cancel any previous fault serve. The following are dead-ball serves:

(b) Broken Ball. If the ball is determined to have broken on the serve, a new ball shall be substituted and the serve shall be replayed, not canceling any
prior fault serve.

Rule 3.13 RALLIES
All of the play that occurs after the successful return of serve is called the
rally. Play shall be conducted according to the following rules:

(f) Broken Ball. If there is any suspicion that a ball has broken during a
rally, play shall continue until the end of the rally. The referee or any
player may request the ball be examined. If the referee decides the ball is
broken, the ball will be replaced and the rally replayed. The server resumes
play at first serve. The proper way to check for a broken ball is to squeeze
it by hand. However, if the referee can be certain that the ball was broken
during, and not after, the previous rally, then he can call for that rally to
be replayed. Checking the ball by any hard striking of it with a racquet will
not be considered a valid check and shall work to the disadvantage of the
player or team that struck the ball after the rally.

Rule 3.17 TECHNICAL FOULS AND WARNINGS
(a) Technical Fouls. The referee is empowered to deduct one point from a
player's or team's score when, in the referee's sole judgment; the player is
being overtly and deliberately abusive. A prior warning is not required, but
see Rule 3.17(b). If the player or team against whom the technical foul was
assessed does not resume play immediately, the referee is empowered to forfeit
the match in favor of the opponent. Some examples of actions that can result
in technical fouls are:

4. Excessive or hard striking of the ball between rallies.

Source: USAR Online Rules - http://www.usra.org/Portals/18/pdf/New2011Rulebook.pdf

Jordan, no one said that the player was checking to see if the ball was broken by hitting it. Player B hit the ball and broke it after Player A had skipped it. It wasn't a two-bounce get. Quit making the issue more complicated than it is so you can quote completely irrelevant rules to us.

Hilario

Jordan, no one said that the player was checking to see if the ball was broken by hitting it. Player B hit the ball and broke it after Player A had skipped it. It wasn't a two-bounce get. Quit making the issue more complicated than it is so you can quote completely irrelevant rules to us.

For the record, I'd like to point out that the ball could have still been in play when it broke...

...nobody has established that they were not playing multibounce.

Matt

Jordan

The ONLY way to determine if the ball is broken is to squeeze it with your hand.

That's not a rule of racquetball.

The rules say "the proper way to check for a broken ball is to squeeze it by hand" -- it doesn't say that's the only way to determine if a ball is broken.

The rules don't make checking a requirement to make a broken ball call. There are plenty of times when a broken ball is obvious, not in dispute, and there is no reason to check anything.

In fact, when a broken ball is torn in two it is physically impossible to compression check it with your hand. Unless, of course, Jordan would require that we duct tape it back together first. . . .

mdhills

I'd like to point out that the ball could have still been in play when it broke...

...nobody has established that they were not playing multibounce.

I think Jordan's head multibounced when they dropped him at birth.

mdhills

Hilario

Jordan, no one said that the player was checking to see if the ball was broken by hitting it. Player B hit the ball and broke it after Player A had skipped it. It wasn't a two-bounce get. Quit making the issue more complicated than it is so you can quote completely irrelevant rules to us.

For the record, I'd like to point out that the ball could have still been in play when it broke...

...nobody has established that they were not playing multibounce.

Matt

Matt I'm not an Open player by any stretch but cmon, multibounce? At least give me a little credit. And for the record I don't use bumpers in the gutters when I bowl either!

dbarry14

Matt I'm not an Open player by any stretch but cmon, multibounce? At least give me a little credit.

Hey, even some of the pros have been known to play a little multi-bounce from time-to-time. Charlie can't get them all!

Matt