At my best in the 70's and 80's I felt threatened and pushed by Charlie Brumfield, Steve Keeley, Steve Serot, Jerry Hilecher, Rich Wagner, Steve Strandemo, Crag McCoy, Davey Bledsoe, Mike Yellen, Dave Peck, Brett Harnet, Cliff Swain, Ed Andrews, Ruben Gonzales. I won more tournaments than anyone in the 70's and 80's but it was never a sure thing and I thought any of those guys could beat me at any given time, as confident as I was.

What players do you think Kane feels pressured by? Who if anyone do you think threatens him this season?

None
None

/End thread

Those that best adjust to the 2-serve rule will emerge as the biggest threats to Kane. I just viewed the YouTube match of Rojas's win over Croft and Jose's drive serve was the difference. Ben served his drive just a couple of times, early in game 3 after having lost the first two games. Jose dominated the match, never letting Ben get into rallies. It looked like a match from the 70s.
Kane has dominated with his drive serve. Someone needs to dominate him likewise if they wish to be a legitimate threat. They won't do it with lobs. And the veterans are going to have to adjust to receiving drive serves from more than just Kane. This fall will be interesting.
Jim

Interestingly I heard Ben say he didn't like the 2-serves rule and he thinks that most of the IRT pros will still be lob serving, because of conditioning. He seemed to be of the opinion that drive serving an entire match would take too much out of the legs and therefore not be worth it.

This was before the finals, and Jose proceeded to drive serve the entire match and win in three. So I don't know how accurate his assessment was.

On topic for this thread, I don't see anybody pushing Kane at all right now. The kid is just too good, he's just got more talent and comes up with more ridiculous crap than anybody I've ever seen. If he keeps on his training and intensity and stays injury-free he will go undefeated again this year.

nobody threatens Kane right now, but someone BETTER do it. The other pros have a target to shoot for and someone needs to step up and raise their game. Like the guys who pushed Marty, or Sudsy who pushed Cliff. It will be ridiculous if current pros #2 through #20 don't learn from Kane and crank it up this season.

Nobody in present sight threatens Kane.

A rising phenom not on the radar screen now will succeed him. How many years that will be depends on random chance of who is up-and-coming, how he ages and handles injuries, and if he becomes complacent or self-destructive.

Kane is the best I've ever seen.

B.Splat
Thanks for the insight. Frankly, as soon as the change to 2-serves was "in the wind", the pros should have been on the court pounding drive serves to improve their conditioning, as well as working on their return-of-serves. It is, after all, their livelihood. Livelihoods, I might add, that are being compromised by Kane's monopoly on the first-place prize money. And, the pros were a part of the group that approved the 2-serves, so I find Ben's comment to you interesting. Like I said, this fall should produce some match-ups that might be noteworthy.
Jim

With the addition of the 2 serve rule a few players will benefit in my opinion. Jack really has a nice drive but I think he failed to use it previously mainly because of consistency (Risk vs reward). Also another who could be a serious dark horse with the 2 serves is Mitch Williams. He drops bombs and the videos I have seen with 2 serves were impressive.

Then again Kane with not only 1 shot at drive but 2 could mean bigger beatings. 1st serve going 100% for a crack ace and he still has his second for a safer laser drive LOL.

I think Rocky and Jack may threaten Kane and as a little surprise Mitch. I believe Mitch could possibly pull a "big upset" with his drive serving ability and a slightly off Kane.
Jack and Rocky must change their style and end rallies quickly (as Kane does) in order to have a chance to beat Kane.

Possibly Brock Lesnar.

I think the only thing that could threaten Kane is boredom. IMHO, the only player that will truly benefit from the 2 serve rule against Kane is Mitch. I love Mitch. He's my favorite player but he will have to be firing on all cylinders and play great defense. Kane can match him (or at least come close) serve for serve and wins on every other facet of the game. Can't see Rocky, Jack, Chris, Shane, whoever, really threaten Kane with drive serves. Having Kane drive serve more often (if he even decides to go that route) will only result in greater dominance, IMHO. I've been waiting on Mitch to break out for years and hope this will be the season.

jwoolcock

Those that best adjust to the 2-serve rule will emerge as the biggest threats to Kane. I just viewed the YouTube match of Rojas's win over Croft and Jose's drive serve was the difference. Ben served his drive just a couple of times, early in game 3 after having lost the first two games. Jose dominated the match, never letting Ben get into rallies. It looked like a match from the 70s.
Kane has dominated with his drive serve. Someone needs to dominate him likewise if they wish to be a legitimate threat. They won't do it with lobs. And the veterans are going to have to adjust to receiving drive serves from more than just Kane. This fall will be interesting.
Jim

Where did you find the match of Jose vs Ben on youtube, i could not find it and I would like to see it.

Put Jose v. Ben in the search box and then scroll down the choices......the filmer has it in 6 segments.

I think the person who will benefit the most from drive serve is... Kane. While his coverage after a lob is very, very good, I haven't seen any current players with better drive serves (Mitch's is also good, but I think he will be hard-pressed to realize any advantage from it vs. Kane)

I seem to recall Jose searching for serves in a number of his pro matches. I didn't see him gaining much advantage from drive serves in the matches I saw on irt network last year.

But I just found Leo's video of Ben/Jose, so I'm looking forward to seeing if there has been a major tuneup. For others:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB2pdQwqVRc

jwoolcock

I just viewed the YouTube match of Rojas's win over Croft and Jose's drive serve was the difference. Ben served his drive just a couple of times, early in game 3 after having lost the first two games. Jose dominated the match, never letting Ben get into rallies.

I must've seen a different video. From the parts up on youtube, Jose's serves:

8-6: half-lob ==> sideout
8-8: drive BH => 9-shot rally and point
9-8: drive FH -> setup -> sideout
9-8: drive BH -> short
9-8: lob BH -> 5 shot rally + point
10-8: drive BH -> setup -> sideout
10-8: drive FH -> 5 shot + broken ball
10-8: drive BH -> short
10-8: lob BH -> 5 shot skip
10-8: drive FH -> skip on 4th shot (point+match)

Last year, looked like players favored serving to Jose's FH. In this game, Ben was primarily lob serving to Jose's BH, and inviting him to shoot. Jose obliged, and gave up some points on skips, and winning 2 sideouts outright.

Jose did get a few drive serves in well, but the 2 setups weren't ideal, and this is what showed up in last year's matches when he tried them out. He might be shortening the range a bit and being more effective now that a fault serve is allowed.

Matt

I didn't say he exclusively used the drive-serve. He did mix in the lob effectively. And, I viewed all 6 segments, covering all three games.
Jim

jwoolcock

I didn't say he exclusively used the drive-serve. He did mix in the lob effectively. And, I viewed all 6 segments, covering all three games.
Jim

Were the new IRT rules part of this tournament? I saw the two serves rule but I also saw the point loser hitting the ball after the point and the sever taking well over 10 seconds to serve.

jwoolcock

I didn't say he exclusively used the drive-serve. He did mix in the lob effectively. And, I viewed all 6 segments, covering all three games.
Jim

Has it been posted somewhere else? (I only saw 2 on youtube)

Matt

Apples
It was a WPRO event, did include 2-serves, and I remember at least one time where Ben hit the ball after losing a point. It wasn't a big deal, but you do hear someone in the video mention that he should have had a technical. He also laid down on his back at one juncture, and did take issue with a call or two at other times. He was clearly frustrated at what was happening, more than likely with his own play which was not nearly as sharp as I've seen him in the past. How much of that was Jose was hard to say, but Jose was hitting well from both sides and his serves applied great pressure, as I've noted. In general, the players served reasonably quickly compared to the mainstrem IRT events from last year, in my opinion. The timeouts and time between games seemed too long, however.

MDhills
I don't know where else it was posted other than YouTube.

Jim

jwoolcock

Apples
It was a WPRO event, did include 2-serves, and I remember at least one time where Ben hit the ball after losing a point. It wasn't a big deal, but you do hear someone in the video mention that he should have had a technical. He also laid down on his back at one juncture, and did take issue with a call or two at other times. He was clearly frustrated at what was happening, more than likely with his own play which was not nearly as sharp as I've seen him in the past. How much of that was Jose was hard to say, but Jose was hitting well from both sides and his serves applied great pressure, as I've noted. In general, the players served reasonably quickly compared to the mainstrem IRT events from last year, in my opinion. The timeouts and time between games seemed too long, however.

MDhills
I don't know where else it was posted other than YouTube.

Jim

Interesting Jim thanks. I hope they stick to the new rules and don't just have them as "suggestions". Tennis IMO is suffering from almost the same thing. I think towels should be banned between points. It drives me nuts!